If you wrote down a list of what constitutes excellence, said Bill Maher, it would be epitomized by Mr. Baron Cohen. And I think the wonderful thing about it was we had no idea how impactful or how pivotal Rudy would be in the final month of the election and post-election in spreading this lie. I think he was one of the financiers of the first “Borat.”. Well, I think what you saw is what he did, is what it is. And we were actually filming this prior to the protests over the murder of George Floyd. But the idea that his free speech has been abridged is ludicrous. So I had about 3% of battery when I got in there, switched on the phone. And he was using these tactics of the bouffon, which is a type of theater that I studied under this French clown teacher. I met the parents at a Vanity Fair Oscar party once and they were the most blissful people at that party, where stars often wander about looking bored or resigned. Ali G pitched Donald Trump about investing in an ice cream glove that would prevent your hand from getting sticky. And this is going to lead to the end of democracy. It’s this kind of radicalization algorithm, which is why I felt I had to say something. The second time, I came in as a sound guy. Ms. Fisher, a modern Carole Lombard who converted to Judaism for Mr. Baron Cohen, has said that it’s difficult to embarrass her husband. Because I escaped from the gun rally, and my main concern as a producer is, have the rest of the crew got out? We’ll be back in a minute. My son, Harvey Milk, is not allowed to urinate standing up. Sacha Baron Cohen plays the cello and is planning to take some Zoom classes from the masters. Yes, to be effective, and they were effective, because as Aaron — the final script brings in this argument with Tom Hayden. Social media companies, as you know, they can be held liable for hosting content related to criminal conduct like copyright infringement, sex trafficking, prostitution, and child pornography. “Luckily, we’re not A-list,” he said. Stalin didn’t need TikTok, although I can’t believe I’m saying that in one sentence. But they didn’t need these things. But the comedian was determined to get it on before Election Day because “we wanted it to be a reminder to women of who they’re voting for — or who they’re not voting for. Mark, Jack, and Sundar will speak in Congress again on March 25th. So you already have some exceptions to Section 230. And there was a —. You can be sued for libel. So, some people end up appearing dreadful. But it does make you wonder what did Rudy try to do to other female journalists. One of them is protest. Do you have high hopes for the Biden administration or this Congress to do anything, whether breaking them up or changing section 230 to remove liability protections? Together, we have set up three weddings. I said, in my country, we have Jews. What’s your price? So, at one point, I had quite a heated discussion with one of them at an art gallery opening in San Francisco about Holocaust denial, just asking why they were allowing Holocaust denial. And I think it’s about the power of peaceful protest when standing up against injustice and the bravery of those people that do that. And the antics were — the more I read about him — and I tried to read everything I could and watch everything I could. My guest today is actor and comedian, Sacha Baron Cohen. Most recently, Baron Cohen appeared in “The Trial of the Chicago 7“. He, of course, denies it. (SINGING) When you walk in the room, do you have sway? So, yes, this is about the debate between the left and the far left, which he beautifully encapsulates in the hatred of Abbie Hoffman and Tom Hayden. Did you think it was going to get this bad? Recalling the bizarre incident, Mr. Baron Cohen said, “I remember my late father watching Trump on the campaign trail in 2016. — very serious break-off at one point where Philippe Gaulier broke off from his mentor, Jacques Lecoq, probably over a debate over red noses. So we don’t want YouTube and Facebook or Twitter to lift their suspensions and allow Trump back on to spread his lies and incite violence. If you’re listening on The Times website and want to get each new episode of “Sway” delivered you faster than Rudy Giuliani can tuck in his shirt, download a podcast app like Stitcher or Google Podcasts, then search for “Sway“, and hit Subscribe. Also a high degree of difficulty: a scene where he sneaked into a Mike Pence speech at a Conservative Political Action Conference this year. I went down to archives and heard old stand-up that he’d done. He actually got that from sitting down with Tom Hayden, where they were, in effect, these brothers that hate each other. Two, he’s a fascist.’ My dad was born in 1932. It was a total con job. And I think Maria Bakalova certainly experienced that. And then, well, I suppose if it was fair and you gave them at least 20 or so minutes, then yes, I suppose that — you know. Inside the bar, it’s like the ‘60s never happened. “Now those inner prejudices are overt. He says this is the reason we’re doing that. Equality, justice, education, poverty, and progress, they’re second. “We were at a very pretentious party, and me and her bonded over taking the mick out of the other people in the party. “If Facebook were around in the 1930s,’’ he said, “it would have allowed Hitler to post 30-second ads on his ‘solution’ to the ‘Jewish problem.’”, The speech catalyzed the “Stop Hate for Profit” campaign, with a coalition of civil rights groups and Mr. Baron Cohen wrangling celebrities. It’s a 56-inch fat suit to turn my waist into Trump’s because we had estimated that was the most realistic.” When a security guard’s wand began beeping, Mr. Baron Cohen improvised that it was because of his defibrillator. Therefore when the ADL invited me to receive an award in 2019, I considered it for the first time. This is how I’m getting attention. Talk a little bit about this moment of being a hero. It’s the people who are spreading these lies and conspiracies. But Vietnam was a lie, right? Reviving his Borat character and playing the political activist Abbie Hoffman, the actor feels he “had to ring the alarm bell and say that democracy is in peril this year.”, Leading man: Sacha Baron Cohen’s riotous characters have perhaps masked his dramatic abilities.Credit...Buck Ellison for The New York Times. Mr. Baron Cohen filmed her lessons for a video — “Exercise for the Over 60’s” — and would send her a bouquet of flowers every week until she died. And as a result, the cops search the room. Sacha Baron Cohen is Zooming in for an interview, sporting a black baseball cap, black T-shirt and a Covid-o’clock shadow. Mr. Trump, who walked out of the interview in disgust, told me afterward: “I thought he was seriously retarded. I’m actually hiding underneath there. But yes, I mean, Sorkin is a master. “Then I ended up hiding in the bathroom, listening to conservative men go to the toilet for five hours until I broke into the room. The aim of the trial was not to declare their innocence. Artist who tricked Sacha Baron Cohen into falling for Covid graffiti hits back with tongue-in-cheek wall dedicated to the Borat star. — communication, which is why it’s so effective. And my wife studied in L’École Jacques Lecoq. And at the end of the movie, they love and respect each other. It feels genuine. There are a number of pillars that buttress up democracy. Like, what about this? Borat keeps his teenage daughter in a cage. You did a lot of things in Borat that — and all your characters, where you got them to do things. I am instructing you to leave. So Rudy, we were told, was coming with a cop, who he employs. After the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va., an appalled Mr. Baron Cohen reached out to Jonathan Greenblatt, the director of the A.D.L., who persuaded the star to give the keynote at last year’s A.D.L. Sacha Baron Cohen: Correct. The father had on a jaunty hat and glowed with pride when I asked about his son. But my daughter Ivanka saw it and thought it was very cool.”, Mr. Baron Cohen, who turned 49 this past week, said, “Obviously, I’ve realized that I’ve had a longstanding distaste for the president. And I wanted to capture that seriousness and that subtlety, the contrast between his public dynamism and his sensitivity and occasional private pain. You think we should do it here? It would stop the lies, save lives, and buttress our democracy. You know, he still has complete freedom of speech. I did the same thing and was quite worried about what was about to happen as I saw it unfold. It would put people to work. It’s telling that Aaron chose to replicate that scene from reality. But the message is the same — when leaders lie, people die.” Can you expand what you meant by that? I listen to your podcast, and I read your articles. In character as Ali G in 2000, you played a limo driver in the video for Madonna’s “Music.”, If Steve Mnuchin wasn’t Treasury secretary, you think he would have produced the new “Borat.”, No. So they’re not going to think of equality or justice. [LAUGHS] [MUSIC PLAYING]. "Borat 2" won two Golden Globe awards on Sunday – and, according to Sacha Baron Cohen, it's all thanks to a very special co-star: Rudy Giuliani. “If there’s anything dangerous that I’m going to do, I just don’t tell her until it’s over,” he said. “My aim here was not to expose racism and anti-Semitism,” he said of the sequel. In this episode of “Sway,” Kara Swisher and Baron Cohen discuss whether Silicon Valley C.E.O.s should be liable for the content on their platforms, what the rift in the Democratic Party means for future elections and — of course — what else happened with Rudy Giuliani. In “The Trial of The Chicago 7,” he portrayed 1960s antiwar activist Abbie Hoffman. Either by playing dumb or feigning authority, he exploits the gullible and persuades the uncertain to produce maximally uncomfortable comedy. Sacha Baron Cohen, front right, plays Abbie Hoffman in The Trial of the Chicago 7. Credit: Netflix For Actor-Activist Sacha Baron Cohen, Being Called A 'Bouffon' Is A Good Thing They don’t allow nipples, but they did allow Nazis, so. So I studied in L’École Philippe Gaulier. You are not allowed to. And so they were essentially saying, OK, go in now. And I felt he was somebody who was struggling quietly. He has probably more free speech than just about anyone in the world. Facebook could hire Americans to help protect American democracy, hire Brits to protect British democracy, and the same all over the world, right? You find out what happened to all the characters, and you find out that Abbie died later on. This opens up him to criticism in the film. So the idea that they are the defenders of free speech is ludicrous. So they were stunts. “He goes, ‘This is really funny, Sach,’” the son recalled, lighting up as he talks about his father. I went over to his restaurant, called Le Manoir aux Quat’Saisons, and I asked to work there and he declined. All right, I have one last question. — feeling. “You can only do this stuff if you feel loved and secure and you don’t feel judged. Currently, Facebook and companies like it cannot be held liable for the death they cause. I mean, yes, Trump is a cometitian. “She was hilarious,” he said. I was very reluctant to do it, and—. We were surrounded by Secret Service and police and internal security.”. Listen, I actually tried to get that movie, to rewrite it, to appear in it. Yeah, if you’ve been made to believe that Biden was a pedophile and a cannibal and had stolen the election and Trump had won, then yes, it’s logical to march on Washington and maybe to try and overturn that vote. I’m very bad at financial stuff. I really don’t agree with that. Kara, thank you for having me on. They claim that their artificial intelligence catches most of the inappropriate content, but they claim that their real world content moderators can’t keep up with the volume. There are three problems that I think you could solve at once. Yeah, I would try and get them in a corner and say, listen, this is going on. And these are terms you coined for Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook, Jack Dorsey of Twitter, Susan Wojcicki of YouTube, Sundar Pichai of Alphabet Google, Larry Page and Sergey Brin, also the founders of Google. He’s sort of the evil clown, sort of the clown from “It“, I guess. summit, Never Is Now. It’s something that I realized very, very early on the first time I did Borat, which was, I took Borat when I was 25 years old to a pro foxhunting rally. It’s a lie that they’re using to make money. They are profiting off of death. He also tried to be a chef. OK. And it was a website saying that the six million was a lie. Your brother, Erran, a composer who wrote the music for Ali G and wrote a new national anthem for Kazakhstan for the first “Borat” and did the music for the new one, also made the single greatest Hanukkah record ever made: “Songs in the Key of Hanukkah,” featuring everyone from Chrissie Hynde to rapper Y-Love. She wrote that down on her divorce papers: “Reason to divorce: ‘Borat.’” She showed the movie at Ron Meyer’s house with Kid Rock. You must leave now. He was a guy who was ready to sacrifice his life to fight against racism and fight for justice. He said that his father, a native of Wales who was an editor on Fleet Street for a periodical called New Middle East, before he went into the clothing business, sat with him at the kitchen table, when he was still living at home, to edit his first Ali G script. I was trying to create some connection between the two. I mean, essentially, what I do is I point the camera, and people act as they do. Was it really worth becoming even richer? Ali G —. “I was just so impressed by his intelligence,’’ Mr. Greenblatt said. “In 2005, you needed a character like Borat who was misogynist, racist, anti-Semitic to get people to reveal their inner prejudices,” Mr. Baron Cohen said. Far more entertaining than Hillary. And then, essentially, I left with the security guard. That convinced Abbie that they would go to jail. And then when I did bump into people from Silicon Valley at Hollywood parties — because, yes, billionaires want to go to Hollywood parties to meet celebrities —. But these companies can’t be sued, right? And he’s like, no, you’re going to stay in here. But as a creator and comedian, the First Amendment is critical to your work. But you do see this kind of interknit scene struggle within the left. Would you be OK with Twitter, for example, deplatforming the Borat handle because it’s not a real person, or adding a disclaimer to a hateful or heated tweet? (And, he has a terrific singing voice, which he showed off in “Sweeney Todd,” “Les Misérables” and at David Geffen’s 75th birthday party, when he sang “If I Were a Rich Man” from “Fiddler on the Roof” and chaffed the billionaires and millionaires in the room that they made up “the world’s third largest economy.”), Mr. Sorkin, who wrote and directed the Chicago 7 film, said that the day Mr. Baron Cohen shot his scene on the witness stand reminded him of the day Jack Nicholson shot his courtroom scene in “A Few Good Men,” noting, “Everyone wanted to watch; 120 extras didn’t care that the camera wasn’t on them, they stayed to watch.”. Well, it was specifically that it was a year away from the election. Do you think it amplifies the malevolence? For Sacha Baron Cohen, it was the culmination of an extensive campaign, one that has seen the comedian use his celebrity to mount an unusually consequential effort … “That’s hilarious,’’ Mr. Baron Cohen said, when I remind him about the encounter. Why can’t they hire hundreds of thousands of people to enforce their policies as content moderators? When I read the script the second time, it was actually during the hearings for Brett Kavanaugh. It was a keynote address at the 2019 Anti-Defamation League Summit. And our daughter, Malala, is obliged to urinate standing up.”, Mr. Baron Cohen explained that his aim was “to challenge and mock the absurdity of the extreme left, too,” faulting “the ineffectiveness of extremists on the left who are unable to ask a simple question because there’s so many qualifications before every sentence so that they don’t offend anyone.”. The world’s largest platforms have banned the world’s biggest purveyor of lies, conspiracies, and hate.